joyce vance twitter

Joyce Vance: ‘Women Are Being Left To The Whims Of The States’ | The Katie Phang Showwe start with a


Updated on Jan 14,2023

Joyce Vance: ‘Women Are Being Left To The Whims Of The States’ | The Katie Phang Show

we start with an unprecedented moment,for women in america the supreme court,of the united states has ruled to,overturn roe v wade and planned,parenthood v casey and to eliminate the,constitutional right to an abortion the,case before the court was dobbs versus,jackson women's health organization,mississippi's last remaining abortion,clinic,in a 6-3 ruling released on friday the,high court held quote the constitution,does not confer a right to abortion row,and casey are overruled and the,authority to regulate abortion is,returned to the people and their elected,representatives,in response the court's liberal justices,justices sonia sotomayor stephen breyer,and elegant kagan,wrote quote,with sorrow for this court but more for,the many millions of american women,who've today lost a fundamental,constitutional protection,we dissent,speaking from the white house on friday,president biden said that roe is on the,ballot this november,the only way we can secure a woman's,right to choose,the balance that existed,is for congress to restore the,protections of roe v wade as federal law,no executive action from the president,can do that,and if congress,as it appears,lacks the vote to vote to do that now,voters need to make their voices heard,joining me now is joyce vance she's an,msnbc legal analyst a former united,states attorney and currently a,professor at the university of alabama's,school of law,joyce i know that this decision just,came out it's got a lot of written heft,to it i'm still getting through to all,of it but i do want to know what your,initial top line impressions are of the,dobbs decision,so we've seen this decision already,we've read most of it when it was leaked,in its draft form and it hasn't changed,to a great extent this is still the,full-on reversal of roe versus wade that,we had been expecting and perhaps,dreading,roe versus wade is reversed the,constitution is as you read from the,opinion does not guarantee women,a right to an abortion,and the the decisions about women's,lives are returned to state legislatures,and katie that seems to be the ultimate,rub for american women because in many,states we have highly gerrymandered,legislatures legislatures that are far,more conservative than the population,even in deep red states,and what that means is that those states,will criminalize abortion,they will put complete restrictions on,it including no abortion availability in,cases like incest rape the life of the,mother or when women are trafficked and,become pregnant as a result and so we're,pushed to extremes in this country women,are left to the whims of their states,and the federal government the,constitution which has provided so many,important protections in cases involving,race and nationality,and sex and gender will provide no,protection to women following this,decision,joyce women have basically been,relegated to being second-class citizens,as a result of the dobbs decision today,but let's talk about the fact that now,it's up to the states in their,individual capacities to be able to,decide what happens within their borders,i anticipate a level of legal chaos we,have not seen in a very long time do you,agree,yeah that's exactly right katie it will,be chaos because different states will,have different rules so there will be a,patchwork quilt,of laws nationwide and there there will,be differential enforcement within the,states for instance some district,attorneys may prosecute women for,criminal offenses for obtaining abortion,others might decide that they have more,important priorities to prosecute and,all of this confusion creates,uncertainty and with uncertainty comes,the difficulty and the push down,on women continuing to obtain access to,services that may be legal in some,states or partially legal in some states,because that uncertainty will breed fear,and confusion and that of course is an,opponent to exercise of rights,so joyce you know this opinion again i,know it's a little bit hefty but you're,right we have seen a very kind of,similar iteration of it when it was,leaked earlier i really want to focus on,this language from the majority opinion,the constitution makes no express,reference to a right to obtain an,abortion but several constitutional,provisions have been offered as,potential homes for an implicit,constitutional right so joyce this idea,that the constitution of the united,states fails to literally include the,word abortion seems to be the linchpin,for the majority to be able to say you,know what there's all this improper,starry decisions there's all this,improper analysis that got us to where,we are today so we're going to shrug our,shoulders and we're going to say we're,going to correct,those wrongs is that basically what the,majority is telling the united states,because i think it's important joyce,because we're going to talk about,justice thomas's concurrence in a minute,but it seems to be a slippery slope that,is about to open the door to a lot of,privacy rights that are go

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Joyce Vance: ‘If Berman's Tales Are Borne Out, They Are Very Serious.’

Joyce Vance: ‘If Berman's Tales Are Borne Out, They Are Very Serious.’

in a major escalation the justice,department has now issued nearly 40 new,subpoenas in connection with efforts by,Donald Trump and his allies to overturn,the 2020 election sources telling NBC,news that the doj also sees two phones,separately the Senate Judiciary,Committee is launching an investigation,into allegations of political meddling,of the Trump justice department under,then attorney general Bill Barr the,former U.S attorney making the claims,spoke to Rachel Maddow last night,turned the department into his own,personal Law Firm he put in people who,would do his bidding and they would you,know Target Trump's,political enemies and assist Trump's,friends and it was a disgrace,Jeffrey Berman the former U.S attorney,fired by Trump says he was pressured to,go after Trump's perceived enemies like,Greg Craig former Clinton White House,counsel while he was the top attorney,for the southern district of New York,joining me now NBC News justice and,intelligence correspondent Ken Delaney,and former U.S attorney and law,professor Joyce Spence,Joyce first to you to go after the U.S,attorney for the southern district and,to demand that Greg Craig a prominent,Democratic Democrat a lawyer be,prosecuted Jeff Berman says and writes,in his book that he refused and then was,basically forced out but hung on just,long enough to make sure that his Deputy,who could not be pressured would replace,him and then of course Greg Craig was,prosecuted by a more willing U.S,attorney and District in the District of,Columbia and was then very quickly,acquitted by a jury but with great,personal loss and of course he lost his,his law firm and you know how does he,get his reputation back but,how unusual is it to have these,allegations of meddling from the,Attorney General of the United States,both in favor of allies and against,perceived opponents,Andrea the allegations are absolutely,unprecedented it's important to keep an,open mind it's it's good for the Senate,to embark on this investigation because,we do need to know the truth we're only,hearing one side here so investigation,is appropriate but if Berman's Tales are,borne out they are very serious no,attorney general can afford to instruct,U.S attorneys or anyone else to even the,score to prosecute one Democrat for one,Republican that's not how Justice Works,Justice works on pursuit of the facts,and the law and not of some form of,political scorekeeping,and Ken let's talk about these new,subpoenas and two cell phones seized,what does this tell us about the Justice,Department's January 6th investigation,and the investigation into the false,electorate schemes,this is a significant escalation of this,investigation Andrea 40 subpoenas around,40 in the last week and two cell phone,seats including the phone of Boris,Epstein a former Trump campaign advisor,a lawyer for former NYPD commissioner,Bernard Carrick who said Carrick out of,subpoena last week told me that the,subpoenas were seeking anything and,everything regarding anyone and everyone,connected to the Trump campaign it was,really broad he said and it's also clear,that they're now investigating,fundraising including by a political,action committee associated with Trump,and other entities raising money on the,grounds that there was fraud that many,people believe the the people raising,money knew that the fraud didn't exist,so so a real expense in this,investigation right on the edge of the,60-day period during which the doj,traditionally goes quiet around an,election obviously the midterms coming,up but they certainly will have a lot of,documents and a lot of testimony to chew,on over the next 60 to 90 days Andrew,enjoys your reaction what does this tell,you,about the fact that they seem to be also,following up certain leads from the,January 6th Congressional committee,it looks like all roads have now led to,one particular place in the center of a,lot of different kinds of misconduct,whether it's the big lie the big rip-off,the Mar-A-Lago incident involving,classified documents some of the,Witnesses are coming together in a,central form we now know that Christina,Bob who signed off on the certification,that all classified material had been,returned was also present in the Willard,War rooms so this is a good moment for,doj to have 60 days to regroup and then,see where their evidence leads them,well our thanks to candelani and and to,Joyce Vance uh thanks to both of you

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Joyce Vance: DOJ ‘Throws Down The Gauntlet’ In Court Filing On TX Abortion Law

Joyce Vance: DOJ ‘Throws Down The Gauntlet’ In Court Filing On TX Abortion Law

the right of women in kentucky to,control their own health and,reproductive future may soon be severely,curtailed today during oral arguments,the united states before the united,states supreme court including liberal,justice stephen breyer seeming to side,with justice with kentucky attorney,general daniel cameron in his quest to,defend a state law that would,functionally ban abortions in kentucky,after 15 weeks an official opinion in,the case is not expected until next year,but it's just one of many cases the,court will hear this year that would,fundamentally reshape the rights of,women in this country depending on its,outcome late last night the department,of justice once again urged the courts,to intervene and suspend texas,near-complete ban on abortion there,doj writes this quote if texas's scheme,is permissible no constitutional right,is safe from state-sanctioned sabotage,of this kind joining our coverage former,u.s attorney joyce vance now a law,professor at the university of alabama,and an msnbc legal analyst yamiche is,still here i want to read a little bit,more joyce um from the justice,department's filing,it feels important and this is something,i've been asking you and neil about for,weeks now they write quote a state might,ban the possession of all handguns in,the home,prohibit independent corporate campaign,advertising and deputize its citizens to,seek bounties for each firearm or,advertisement partisans of one stripe or,another might cheer these outcomes but,they should horrify anyone committed to,the principle that this diverse nation,is bound by one constitution,what do you think of that,doj is taking a strong stand here and,giving the supreme court who will,ultimately decide this case every uh,every possible opportunity to reconsider,their earlier decision to permit the law,to go into effect the point that they're,making here is that we're not a country,with one set of rules that apply to,every kind of case except abortion and a,separate form of jurisprudence in,abortion cases,we are not a country that's meant to,permit vigilante justice schemes like,the one that texas uses here for,abortion as a way to get around the,constitution as an end run around the,rule of law doj throws down the gauntlet,with this filing saying you might like,what happens in texas you may like it a,lot less when for instance the state of,vermont or the state of new york decides,to collect bounties using vigilantes for,people who own guns or exercise other,rights that conservatives favor in other,words one country one set of rules one,law that everyone has to follow texas,can't get around it when it comes to,abortion and that's the decision that,doj sets up for the supreme court to,ultimately have to make,why aren't there cameras in the supreme,court joyce dance,you know there should be cameras in the,supreme court nicole this is an argument,that i've made time and time again but,historically federal courts have,rejected the use of cameras saying that,they worry that judges lawyers will have,to grandstand for the cameras as opposed,to getting around the serious business,of practicing law but we know from,examples in state courts and we know,from our experience during the pandemic,that having cameras in the courtroom,only makes our justice system more,accessible to citizens lets people see,the actual proceedings and make up their,own mind about what they think the,issues are and how the law should work,so hopefully the supreme court which has,now moved to live streaming its oral,arguments that's something new this term,sort of a carryover from the pandemic,hopefully this is part of a push to open,up the federal courts to cameras well,yamiche i ask because we should all be,able to see,we should see their faces they're,definitely sharing their inner,monologues with us we know the supreme,court justices are triggered by scrutiny,and by criticism of the use of the,shadow docket to outlaw 85 percent of,all abortions in texas and we should see,their reaction to,to stuff like this this is what planned,parenthood filed,they gave examples of what's happening,to women in texas now today because of,the decision by the united states,supreme court through their shadow,docket which despite joyce explaining it,to me no fewer than 11 times i barely,understand,bg initials to protect her identity,works two jobs 55 to 60 hours weekly,she'll soon graduate from college and,has a job offer in engineering which she,sees as a path out of poverty bg says,she is not emotionally or financially,prepared to have a child because she's a,primary provider for herself her mother,and her younger siblings let me read one,more,a 13 year old patient had to get a,judicial bypass before scheduling an,abortion which delayed her embryonic,cardiac activity was detected at six,weeks three days,she can't leave texas without her,parents knowing because she can't drive,one more,l.o in houston spoke of a 12 year old,patient who came in with her mom a,single workin

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Joyce Vance: "Everything Can Backfire In A Trial Setting. But This Worked" | Katy Tur | MSNBC

Joyce Vance: "Everything Can Backfire In A Trial Setting. But This Worked" | Katy Tur | MSNBC

you i know how i reacted when i was,watching this testimony in the video,that was shown,how was the jury reacting,uh hi there katie well this was supposed,to be among the driest most,technical testimony that we had seen so,far so you wondered,how might the jury react to this well,we're getting our initial reports from,inside the courtroom from the poor,reporters inside the courtroom,and according to the pool report the,jurors were,very attentive they're taking notes,obviously impacted,by this testimony and you could see it,from the doctor's,testimony he was engaging with the,jurors he was making eye contact with,them,certainly comes from his experience as,he says testifying,in dozens of trials about 50 he said,so katie you mention a lot of the,highlights in your setup but what really,stuck,struck me was that moment when the,doctor was discussing,not just the knee on george floyd's neck,but,also how the handcuffs behind him how,that,impacted his breathing it's going to be,very tough for the defense to refute,some of that based,on any cross examination we're expecting,that after the break but katie was just,incredible to hear this world-renowned,leader in his field really picking apart,the defense's argument,point by point this all sets up,the county medical examiner who is,supposed to testify,tomorrow his controversial autopsy,report did not mention asphyxia,and it has been used by the defense to,argue that,floyd had high levels of fentanyl in his,system but you just heard the doctor,right there,basically picking apart that argument,katie,dr tobin accordingly uh wrote the bible,on,breathing that's what it's known as uh,dr gupta,you're also pretty prominent in the,field of pulmonology we're,really lucky to have you to talk about,covid but having you to talk about,that about this i'd like to know with,your expertise,what did you make of this testimony,good afternoon katie it's obvious really,difficult to listen to,but everything dr token said he's he's,an icon in our field that's correct,i would let me key in on a few things,for your audience one this notion that,fentanyl played any role,for those who know how fentanyl works,basically this will cause somebody to be,sleepy,pretty quickly it will cause them to,have their respiratory rate decline,so normally katie you and i are,breathing about 10 to 12 breaths a,minute,that fentanyl will cause your breath,respiratory rate to decline maybe four,to six breaths per minute,dr tobin appropriately noted that mr,floyd was breathing at about 20 breaths,per minute he was,at a high normal breathing rate trying,to get more breaths in,so number one that fundamentally works,against this argument that fentanyl,played any role,number two i i i thought what was very,moving,and really important to emphasize was,the contortions,of the hip that mr floyd was trying to,engage,in to see if he could free up his right,side his right chest,was his only hope to get a breath in his,his windpipe was already being,constricted by the knee,here he was trying to get an effective,breath by opening up,his right chest because per what dr,tobin said his left,his left lung was effectively,non-existent because it was already,smashed into the street,so basically you had a situation where,mr foy was being strangulated from above,his windpipe was being strangulated and,his rib cage was not,able to move and he was trying to move,it with contortions of his hip,pushing his knuckles against the tire he,unfortunately couldn't do it but that,was really what caused,his respiratory arrest ultimately as,hard as,going into cardiac arrest,you know and i know we focused so much,on the knee and the neck but dr tobin,made this point and so did,one of the witnesses yesterday that that,derek chovan's whole body weight was on,um george floyd's body and not just the,neck but the back,they also talked in great detail dr,gupta,about the compression of the hands at,the base of the back by,derek shovin and one of the other,officers what does it mean when,a person's entire body weight is not,just on your neck,but on but on your back,well katie the only way to get in enough,oxygen into your blood,through your lungs is that you can take,an effective breath so that's you and me,being able to lift,our rib cage mr floyd was unable to do,that because he had a very heavy person,leading his entire body weight on him i,thought it was important important to,say that,the the the boot of derek stoven was not,actually hitting the ground it was,all focused his entire body was focused,on his chest and on his neck,meaning you couldn't elevate the ribcage,and having actually the,the hands behind handcuffed behind,his back mr floyd's back prevented him,from using his appendages from lifting,up,from having a fighting chance to,actually see if he could potentially,elevate his rib cage even a little bit,to get maybe a small breath,in but the combination of the,strangulation of the windpipe,and the inability to elevate his rib,cage because of the

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Loudermilk Is Obligated To Come In And Testify Says Joyce Vance

Loudermilk Is Obligated To Come In And Testify Says Joyce Vance

dan goldman i start with you,um this denial is so specific and so,parsed i'm not even sure the two parties,are saying anything all that different,at this point,in the legal world we call this a straw,man you set up a an argument that was,not made and then you knock it down,nobody said that the surveillance was of,any place that was breached on january 6,and no one alleged that any of the,people on the surveillance tour were,charged uh criminally by the department,of justice yet that's what of course,representative loudermilk wants to point,out the fact of the matter is that he,issued a very uh thorough denial last,time when the committee asked him to,come testify because they at that point,they just said they had evidence that he,led a tour,now that evidence has been released he,denied it he said no i did not and what,we're seeing and and i i looked at that,surveillance footage it looks very,familiar to me having worked there,i have no idea why anyone doing a tour,of any congressional buildings the,capital or otherwise would be taking,photos of random staircases,or security uh checkpoints,the day before what was an insurrection,of course yes those places may not have,ultimately been breached but not perhaps,for lack of trying and maybe that was,part of the uh the effort was to figure,out where those tunnels were because,although we don't know exactly where the,members of congress went we are almost,certain that they went down into those,tunnels,to escape the insurrectionists so,certainly having some understanding and,knowledge of those tunnels would be,valuable to someone who was planning to,violently invade the capital,representative loudermilk needs to,appear before this committee he needs to,tell the public what he knows and what,he did and i believe at a minimum he,should be referred to the ethics,committee right away for an,investigation into whether or not he,should remain in congress,let me put the video up one more time,this is a video of a congressman's,visitors,taking pictures of stairwells and doors,if there had not been a deadly,insurrection on january 6 i think people,would still want to know,why tourists were taking photographs of,stairways and doors,this isn't bat bleep crazy this is some,sort of,maniacal surveillance plan this has,nothing to do with tourism they're not,even humans in the pictures joyce fans,at what point does common sense,require someone to say as a member of,the body,you should want to come before us and,tell us what your guests were doing,filming stairwells and doors,common sense requires that at this point,looking at this video it's hard to,understand how louder milk continues to,dodge answering questions about it and,nicole you and i have played this game,before where we turned this into a,situation with the democrats engaging in,wrongdoing the republicans demanding,accountability if some democratic,congressmen had been leading a tour,where vulnerable security bottlenecks,and other places in the capitol were,being filmed and the following day there,was a violent insurrection with someone,saying that they would drag mitch,mcconnell off the floor of the senate by,his hair you can be certain that there,would be enormous pressure on on that,democratic leader to come in and testify,latter mc loudermilk took an oath to,uphold the constitution he's obligated,to come in and testify,you know we've had this real problem,with congress's inability to enforce its,own oversight it may be here that ethics,committees provide a better venue for,getting that done but honestly if he,won't testify he ought to be served with,a subpoena and compelled,carol lennox,what loudermilk hangs his refusal on is,the belief that he was cleared already,this is the u.s capitol police statement,from yesterday quote there's no evidence,that representative loudermilk entered,the u.s capitol with this group on,january 5th 2021. we train our officers,and being alert for people conducting,surveillance or reconnaissance and we do,not consider any of the activities we,observed as suspicious do we know that,they're looking at the same tape carol,we don't know but you have to presume,that the select committee shared this,information with capitol police but,honestly nicole this is this is pretty,embarrassing for capitol police you may,remember and i think everybody on this,panel was talking about it shortly after,with each of us about,pelosi insisting that she had heard from,other members in the days after january,6 that these tours had been given after,the building was closed on january 5th,it had been closed for covid and many,democratic members were now very,suspicious why were these tours being,given,well you know when i look at these video,images,it's hard for me to to imagine how this,doesn't rate as suspicious consider for,a moment if these were not suspected,insurrectionists consider for a moment,if these were,people from,islamic countries who were visiting our,country they would have been stopped and,questi

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Michael Cohen: When workng for Trump ‘you think you’re not going to get caught’

Michael Cohen: When workng for Trump ‘you think you’re not going to get caught’

and have you had recent contact with,Alvin Bragg let me say that I suspect,that I will be meeting with them in,relatively short order more than that I,don't want to discuss I have not,personally been subpoenaed nor have I,personally spoken with them but I do,believe based upon Alvin Briggs recent,statements that I will be meeting with,them uh very soon,and that is about the the cases that are,outstanding right the cases that have,not been brought or it could be other,cases I don't know I have again I,haven't spoken with him in order to be,able to answer you you know,appropriately but what was this about I,mean I I guess what I'm getting at is no,I mean I can't imagine will you tell me,was it Alan weisselberg's idea to pay,himself in tuition for his grandchildren,and rental cars from Trump and an,apartment in Trump's building so,remember Alan's not the only one that,received these sort of benefits other,Executives received similar benefits as,well,Alan weisselberg was as close to being,CEO as anybody else that was there more,so even than the children When Donald,ended up moving to DC and they put the,Trump org allegedly in trust one of the,issues was who's going to sign every,single check and the answer to that was,clear everybody knew who was going to be,in advance that's Alan weisselberg he,was the trustee of the trust because he,had been with Donald for almost five,decades so my father before that right,yes now Allen's not a CPA Allen was a,bookkeeper who ultimately Rose to the,position very quickly of CFO because he,did for Donald what Donald wanted so,anyone I'll give you an example so,weisselberg made a comment and that he,told the jurors that he'd betrayed the,Trump family's trust by conspiring with,a subordinate to hide more than a,decade's worth of extras from his income,including the free Manhattan apartment,you talked about luxury cars and his,grandchildren's private school tuition,so let me be very clear that the,apartment that his son was living in is,owned by Donald and that the vehicles,that were leased were leased off of the,Trump account as well as the Trump,tuition the children's uh tuition that,was paid for from the Trump organization,so the nonsense that,yeah was it to compensate Executives,with those benefits well it may have,been Allen's it may have been Donald's,it may have been somebody else's the,point is,it doesn't matter whose idea it was they,were all involved in the scheme,including Trump correct whose decision,it is to go rob the bank is irrelevant,from the guy who's behind the steering,wheel to the guy who's inside the bank,it's all it's all part of the scheme and,Donald was involved in it from from,inception to execution why,why eiselberg on his way to Rikers,no you know look he is 75 years old I,would prefer him not to be in Rikers,Island even though I don't understand,the sentence and good for judge Marcia,and he made you know um he gave his word,and he lived up to it despite the fact,that they know that Alan once again was,not telling the truth that he fell on,the sword for Donald and for the company,and you have to wonder why so who paid,why what's the answer to the why Well,everybody's still hiding for Trump and,why well it's obviously at this point,it's all money who paid the two million,dollars that Alan owed back to the,government you know who at the time,whether or not Trump Allen received the,half a million dollar bonus that he,routinely got for Christmas and what,else is being promised to him in the,future you see one thing that Donald,learned after they ran away from me is,that the worst thing that you can do is,have somebody who is as close to Donald,as I was more so without Alan,weisselberg being in opposition the way,that I am,so they learn through their experience,with you not to cut them off to continue,to pay them and you think he's been do,you think some of his I mean is he still,covering up it seems like he's still,covering up for Trump and that's the,assessment of prosecutors oh yeah and I,believe the jury believed that he wasn't,being forthright either and so did the,judge,um you know but nevertheless five months,turning out to be a hundred days look I,did 51 I did half of that amount in,solitary confinement I certainly for a,75 year old man Rikers is no place for,him,when you look to see who really should,be the one that's incarcerated and I,don't think that it should have been,Alan I think Allen should have been more,forthright and he should have given up,the goods on Donald and the rest of the,family tell me what's going through your,mind when you're working for Trump and,you're doing things that you know are,illegal,you're not going to get caught that's,that's really what it's all about that,Donald expects you to do what he wants,you to do this notion that Alan came up,with this he may have heard about it and,presented it to Donald but it was,ultimately Donald's decision and no one,else's,they then I'm sure spoke to the,accountants and said look this

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Joyce Vance: Gaetz Looked Like Someone Who Desperately Needs A Lawyer On Fox News | Deadline | MSNBC

Joyce Vance: Gaetz Looked Like Someone Who Desperately Needs A Lawyer On Fox News | Deadline | MSNBC

gates went on fox news soon after the,story dropped he's denied the,allegations and said this is,part of an extortion scheme to get money,from his family,but his interview with tucker carlson,only seemed to raise more questions,i only know what i've read in the new,york times,i can say that actually you and i went,to dinner about two years ago your wife,was there and,i brought a friend of mine you'll,remember her and she was actually,threatened by the fbi told that if she,wouldn't,cop to the fact that somehow i was,involved in some pay-for-play scheme,that she could face trouble and so i do,believe that there are people at the,department of justice,who are trying to smear me uh you know,providing for,flights and hotel rooms for people that,you're dating who are of legal age,is not a crime uh and i'm just troubled,that,the lack of any sort of legitimate,investigation into me would then permute,would then convert,into this extortion attempt i i don't,remember the the woman you're speaking,of or the context at all honestly that,was,one of the weirdest interviews i've ever,conducted,how bad is it for matt gates it's so bad,that tucker carlson can't follow the,threat so here's the real story,that appears to be some sort of weird,cover story here's a real story from the,new york times scoop,quote investigators are examining,whether gates violated federal sex,trafficking laws so according to three,people briefed on the matter a variety,of federal statutes makes it illegal,to induce someone under 18 years old to,travel over state lines to exchange,to engage in sex in exchange for money,or something of value,the justice department regularly,prosecute such cases and offenders often,receive severe sentences,okay so now here's the plot twist matt,gates,of all the people on the planet should,know precisely how harshly,child sex trafficking is treated it,might explain his loan vote against,human sex,trafficking legislation but the real,reason matt gates should know just how,harshly,federal investigators treat child sex,trafficking,is because his very very very very very,close friend and political ally,a friend so close that matt gates,brought,this friend with him to the trump white,house took this picture,is now in jail for violating bond in a,case involving,child sex trafficking from that new york,times report quote,three people said the examination of mr,gates 38,is part of a broader investigation into,a political ally of his a local official,in florida named joel greenberg,who was indicted last summer on an array,of charges including sex trafficking of,a,child and financially supporting people,in exchange for sex,at least one of whom was an underage,girl greenberg has pleaded not guilty to,those churches,now we've gone from talking about matt,gates as someone so disdainful of his,constituents that he wore a gas mask to,mock,cobit protections someone so full of,hate for his own republican colleagues,who had the courage to call out donald,trump for inciting the deadly,insurrection,that he traveled to wyoming in the,middle of a pandemic to attack liz,cheney,to someone who is now under,investigation one,launched by bill barr's doj for,child sex trafficking bill barr's doj a,lot of bad guys,could lay away with a lot of stuff but,here we are,joining our conversation katie benner,one of the reporters whose byline,is on that story that broke the gates,news yesterday from the new york times,joins us,also joining us joyce vance former u.s,attorney and matt miller's here former,chief spokesman for the justice,department lucky for us,all three msnbc contributors katie,benner i start with you,and if you could just make sense of what,matt gates,is talking about it seems unrelated,whether or not,someone i mean what what is what is he,talking about with tucker carlson and in,these other interviews sure and i,believe the washington post has just,broken some more news on this,extortion plot that matt gates talked,about last night on tucker carlson,but what he is alleging is that several,months after the justice department,opened up an investigation into a sexual,conduct and whether or not it,violates federal law that somebody local,in northern florida found out about this,and said that,you know he could make the investigation,go away in exchange for a huge sum of,money for 25 million dollars and that is,what gates contends,now it seems as though what gates is,trying to say,is that the people involved in this,extortion plot,somehow also created the expression and,somehow created the sex trafficking,investigation simply to build to extort,money from him,the timeline makes that seem very,improbable however that seems to be his,claim,now keep in mind again as you emphasize,many times this was an investigation,begun,at the justice department under bill,barr knowingly because all,investigations of this caliber,official so high profile do need to be,run by the top officials in the justice,department and signed off on,and so i it's hard to bel

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Joyce Vance Breaks Down The 'Evil Genius’ Behind The Texas Abortion Ban

Joyce Vance Breaks Down The 'Evil Genius’ Behind The Texas Abortion Ban

i'm pro-life i welcome pro-life,legislation what they did in texas was,interesting so we'll have to look i'm,going to look more significantly at it,i'm sure you are,host florida governor ron desantis,expressing interest in enacting a texas,style near-complete abortion ban in his,state he's not alone less than one week,after texas's de facto ban on abortion,went into fact lawmakers and at least 11,other states are considering enacting,similar laws,officials in arkansas florida south,carolina south dakota kentucky louisiana,oklahoma,ohio,indiana mississippi,and north dakota have all either said,they will amend their state's laws to,mirror the texas bill or expected to do,so the cruelty on display in the rush to,limit the freedoms of women,and place bounties on them,has drawn international condemnation the,guardian reports that quote united,nations human rights monitors have,strongly condemned the state of texas,for its new anti-abortion law which they,say violates international law by,denying a woman control over her own,body and endangering their lives joining,our coverage nbc news correspondent,julia ainsley and joyce vance is back,with us,julia um,i've seen some reports from governor,abbott today,there is no fluency no vocabulary on the,republican party's part about what this,actually is which is actually about four,weeks pregnant the six-week,legal definition comes from the last day,of a woman's last period so this would,eliminate 85 of all abortions in texas i,haven't seen the numbers in all the,states that you're reporting on but talk,about whether they're all,doing this eyes wide open and understand,that it is essentially for all intents,and purposes an abortion ban,well that's exactly right nicole i'm,glad you pointed that out and actually,it's about two weeks after most women,could even take a pregnancy test so it's,not as if a woman has been living with,the fact that she's pregnant before six,weeks before she would be banned under,the texas law as far as what other,states are doing it seems that there's,there's been energizing since the,supreme court decision last week not to,intervene and to let the texas band go,forward but it could all fall apart,pretty quickly nicole it's not a very,legally safe basket for these states to,be putting all their eggs in because as,soon as one of these,lawsuits actually comes where one of,those vigilantes like in a place like,texas would sue an abortion provider or,anyone even remotely connected to a,woman getting a procedure after six,weeks then we would actually get the,real dialogue about this case you could,have oral arguments in federal court,where the big question would come in how,is this stranger to the woman who's,suing this abortion provider remotely,damaged at all by this decision do they,have legal standing and that could be,where it falls apart we just haven't,gotten there yet because no one has,actually used this lawsuit to this law,to file a lawsuit like that and so until,that comes we won't really see how,strong this law could be but it could,very easily fall apart the other thing,they're doing is they could tee up,really what could be a one-upsmanship if,you look at what liberal states could do,you could use the same strategy,to say sue anyone who illegally sells a,gun without a background check it's not,something that seems like it could,really hold for a long period of time,but right now these states are seeing,that this is one that has gotten through,so far they're looking at the more,conservative makeup of the supreme court,and they are quickly as fast as they can,getting these bills drafted to try to,get them out the door,joyce if the supreme court has greenlit,bounties on anyone who aids and abets a,woman getting an abortion,should democrats look at laws,that do the same thing for anyone that,you know julia says illegally buys a,handgun or creates and sells fake,vaccination cards or sells masks that,don't work i mean if this is the new,tactic if the supreme court has said hey,wild wild west go get them vigilantes,should the left,respond responding kind,so i'll just start by saying no that's,not the right way to make policy in the,states by setting out to write laws that,clearly violate people's civil rights,well-established rights and to hope that,you can get those laws in place,i think we all know that at an,instinctive level right we have laws we,are a rule of law country to make our,lives better not so we can play games,with people and and not in some of them,their most serious fundamental rights,julia does a great job of pointing out,what's at stake here because there are,essentially two key points in time,where people who are opposed to a law,can challenge it one is before it goes,into effect and one is after it goes,into effect we haven't hit this second,stage with the texas law presumably that,would happen if someone were to bring a,lawsuit against people around a woman,people who aided and abetted a woman and,getting an abortion and th

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