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Duty to Warn: Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess the “Dangerous Case” of President Trump

Democracy Now!

Updated on Jan 20,2023

Duty to Warn: Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess the “Dangerous Case” of President Trump

this is democracy now democracynow.org,the war and peace report,I'm Amy Goodman we end today's democracy,now special by looking at president,Trump's mental health and a growing,movement among mental health,professionals called duty to warn last,month president Trump slurred his speech,and mispronounced his words during an,address on Israel let us rethink old,assumptions and open our hearts and,minds to possible and possibilities and,finally I asked the leaders of the,region politically religious Israeli and,Palestinian Jewish and Christian and,Muslim to join us in the noble quest for,lasting peace thank you god bless you,god bless Israel god bless the,Palestinians and God bless the United,States thank you very much White House,press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders,responded to questions about Trump's,slurred speech by announcing he'd,scheduled a physical health exam the,president's throat was dry and nothing,more than that he does have a physical,schedule for the first part of next year,the full physical that most presidents,go through they will take place at,Walter Reed and those records will be,released by the doctor following that,taking place meanwhile New York Times,chief White House reporter Maggie,Haberman commented on Trump's behavior,when she was interviewed on CNN last,month something is unleashed with him,lately I don't know what is causing it I,don't know how to describe it,oh you think you're different you see a,difference in the past what days we I,think the last couple of days tweets,have been unhinged markedly accelerated,in terms of seeming a little unmoored,this all comes as Pentagon leaders told,a Senate panel they would ignore any,unlawful order by the president to,launch a nuclear strike the testimony,came as part of the first congressional,hearings in more than 40 years on the,president's authority to start a nuclear,war well last month i sat down with Yale,psychiatrist dr. bandy Lee,to talk with her about president Trump's,mental health and the growing movement,of mental health experts called duty to,warn dr. bandy Lee is a forensic,psychiatrist on the Faculty of Yale,School of Medicine an internationally,recognized expert on violence she edited,the book the dangerous case of Donald,Trump 27 second trace and mental health,experts assess a president the book,became a best-seller when it was,published in October I began by asking,her about her concerns about president,Trump's mental health it's actually,historically unprecedented that so many,mental health professionals have come,forth with their concerns under any,president of any party so it really is,the first time that this many mental,health professionals are coming together,in a coalition we even have a website,now dangerous case org where the public,and not and lawmakers can discourse with,us there are thousands of us at this,point so talk about lay out what your,concerns are as a psychiatrist so our,concerns are that someone with this,level of mental instability and,impairment has this much power in the,office of the presidency basically the,power to start a devastating war to,launch nuclear missiles without any,inhibition you saw from the hearings,that there is very little inhibition in,place right now within five minutes of,the commander-in-chief's orders nuclear,missiles could be launched without,question and how does that relate to his,mental fitness and of course his,decision-making capacity having such,levels of impulsivity having a loose,grip on reality and being so fragile in,his ability to cope with ordinary,stresses such as basic criticisms or,unflattering news will tend to unravel,especially in times of,heightened stress such as under the,special council's investigations just,last week Tony Schwartz author of well,co-author of Trump's book the art of the,deal told msnbc Zara Melbourne that the,president's inner circle is worried,about his mental state I know the two,different people from the White House or,at least saying they were from the White,House and that turned out to be a White,House number have called somebody I know,in the last several weeks to say we are,deeply concerned about his mental health,that's you're saying you have knowledge,of people calling from a White House,line raising that question why would,they do that how do you know that I know,that because I know the person that they,called and this is a person who I,absolutely trust who has great integrity,so that was Tony Schwartz who I think,ghost wrote the book the art of the deal,very close to Trump for a period of time,what are thoughts about what he said,buzz you know he has a chapter in the,book even though he's not counted among,the 27 experts we do have three others,who have been included for their special,insight their special experience with,mr. Trump and and we included him,because he has special insight into into,these matters and I would agree with his,assessment we speak often we share our,observations and were both deeply,concerned the

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Duty to Warn
ETHICS - Duty to warn - Detailed Overview
Duty to Warn: The Movie
Mental Health Professional's Duty to Warn - Dr. Dean Aslinia
"Duty to warn" on MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell Show
What Happens if a Client Confesses to Murder? | Counselor Limits of Confidentiality
Tarasoff Murder Case | Duty to Warn vs. Duty to Protect

Duty to Warn

hi everyone my name is dr. Tony,jahnesia I am an adult psychiatrist and,today I have the pleasure to be sitting,here with dr. Rusty Reeves he is a,professor of psychiatry at Rutgers,University he's also the director at the,Rutgers forensic psychiatry fellowship,program as well as the director,psychiatry at Rutgers University,correctional health care thank you so,much for being here today doctor thank,you for having me,so today dr. Yves is going to be sharing,with us updates on the duty to warn as,well as he's going to be reviewing the,violence risk assessment with us,so dr. Reeves in terms of the updated,duty to warm how should we think about,that okay most psychiatrists are aware,that New Jersey has had a duty to warn,law which is informally known as a,Tarasov law since 1991 that's nothing,new and what's happened is in June of,this year 2018 governor Murphy signed a,bill that added a component to that duty,to warn law it requires notification of,police when there is a duty to ward so,it's added on a mandatory requirement to,that duty to warn I can explain that a,little bit more yes please okay so the,the duty to warn law just to review what,it basically is is there is a law that,essentially in a way establishes whether,we want to or not a standard of care,that we have to consider violence as,well as suicide but violence towards,others whether we like it or not that's,the duty to warn the Tarasov law was the,landmark case that established this in,California and it's spread to many other,states since then including New Jersey,can you say just the basics of the,terroristic law so that was if a patient,told us that they were going to harm,somebody or harm themselves that we had,a duty to do something about that yeah,roughly yes that's it the words are,important here and that's what I'm going,to go over one of,yes that's it in a nutshell a duty to,warn is incurred when your patient has,communicated to you a threat of imminent,serious physical violence against a,readily identifiable individual or,against himself okay and you believe,that the person intended to carry out,the threat so there's a lot of words,that are packed in there,I think intent is the important thing,for the psychiatrist or other mental,health clinician to understand it has to,be your belief that this person was,serious about it it's not just somebody,in there complaining like oh I'm tired,of my kids sometimes I just want to kill,them we know that that person's not,really serious it's not really a,credible threat when you believe that,it's against a readily identifiable,individual serious violence and the,person intends to carry it out you incur,the duty to warn or more broadly if you,just a reasonable practitioner should,believe that a person intends to carry,out such an ad then you incur that duty,to warn mm-hmm so if you really believe,they're going to act on it yes so if I,have for example a patient comes to mind,who is following his ex-girlfriend,you know interrogating her so to speak,maybe he would follow her afterward but,he didn't actually express he was going,to harm her and one of those kinds of,scenarios where it's not so black and,white,is it better essentially to take the,high road and and make the call well I,knew that you would give me that,question and that's the difficult,question to answer I would say,technically no that the person has not,conveyed a threat they have not said,that they intended to do anything the,more broadly is what a reasonable,practitioner believed that the person,intended to carry out imminent serious,physical violence if you believe that,that's the case then you should follow,through with duty to warn but I would,say with nothing more it's easy for me,to say in this situation or a face but I,would say no that would not rise to a,duty to warn it's always helpful in,these situations and this is what I,teach in my fellowship,is that if you're about to make a,responsible but somewhat risky decision,particularly to release somebody from an,ER release somebody from a hospital or,not put somebody in a higher level of,care or call the police you document,your reason briefly it shows,thoughtfulness it shows consideration,you could always be sued but it's,unlikely you'll be successfully sued

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ETHICS - Duty to warn - Detailed Overview

ethics and,duty to one,so this lecture basically involves,all the scenarios and where it's a duty,of a doctor,to inform the relevant authorities,and make sure that appropriate steps are,taken,when a person is at risk or something so,this this basically involves,looking at uh suicidal or homicidal,tendencies of a patient,so how look at this the patient comes to,see in your clinic,and the patient has a history of bipolar,disorder which has been,diagnosed recently and the patient,confides in you you being the regular,family doctor for him and says,doc i feel like jumping from the roof,and ending my life,as he's been very very sad,recently to the extent that he's in the,three depression,and,feels like he should take his life,one of the most epic great thing to do,in such circumstances for the doctor or,the medical professional,this is one of the scenarios if you're a,doctor,that you may encounter at some,time of your life all right,now the most appropriate response,amongst the following is,whether choice choice number one is,maintain its confidentiality,in you and you do not tell anyone so,just obey,the patient doctor confidentiality,relationship,the second one is to inform the policing,about inform about the risk,to the life the third is inform the,patient's,family about the plans of the patient,and the last one is whether to admit the,patient even against his wishes if,required,and start immediate treatment,okay now the answer to this question,is that you should admit the patient,even if it's required,against the wishes and start immediate,treatment okay now why is that so,now it's it's a duty of a treating,doctor to identify,any patient who is at risk of life,either to himself or to others and take,every step possible to prevent that from,happening,this is one of the most important,aspects,in ethics and is a duty of a treating,doctor,when there's concern to the life of the,patient,also it is one of the rare circumstances,when a patient confidentially,can be compromised all the relevant,authorities should be informed in the,injury the patient himself or any other,person,should be prevented now as a person,is possible imminent threat instant,action is required and the patient be,admitted for for the intervention and,the earliest and as i said before,even if it's against the wishes of the,patient thank you for watching,please like and share subscribe to our,channel,and watch our next video also comment on,the videos,that you like and share amongst your,friends,also please do visit at,enoughmentvideos.com for detailed,lectures,and more notes thank you please keep,coming

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Duty to Warn: The Movie

hello I'm John Gardner founder of duty,to warn we're a grassroots organization,of mental health professionals who find,Donald Trump to be deeply and,dangerously psychologically disordered,and thus we feel an ethical obligation,to warn the public and to advocate that,he be removed under the 25th amendment,you know this movement began right here,at this desk when I posted a petition,online for mental health professionals,that said just what I am Telling You in,a few months we had 58 thousand,signatures and now we're having duty to,warn meetings all across the United,States on October 14th after which we're,going to submit the petition to the,president's cabinet which has the power,to remove him under the 25th amendment,you know I think it's not accidental,that I've actually yet to meet a single,mental health professional who,affirmatively we believe that Donald,Trump is psychologically competent to be,President and yet so few of us have,spoken out in part because of the,American Psychiatric Association's,Goldwater rule which states that it is,unethical to make statements about a,public figure that you haven't,personally examined but more fundamental,in our ethical code is a duty to educate,and protect the welfare of the public,and specifically a duty to warn people,who are in danger in the 1930s a,malignant narcissist rose to power in,part because people were silent,including mental health community and we,don't want to make that mistake again in,this movie you're going to hear from,mental health professionals who have,spoken out I wanted you to meet them and,hear their testimony about why this one,man psyche threatens the safety and the,survival of the entire planet thank you,there are a number of things wrong with,the Goldwater role for lending the,Goldwater rule was put into place before,DSM 3 DSM 3 changed the way we do,psychiatric diagnosis from a really,psychodynamic formulation to much more,observable behaviors with the advent of,DSM 3 the basis of psychiatric diagnosis,becomes much more observable from a,distance so that public behaviors become,fair game if I really feel compelled to,speak out I need to be able to do that,and and not sit and and fumble and,wonder well maybe I shouldn't say,anything because of my profession that's,when I should be able to speak out,because of my profession because I have,sensitivities and the problem with the,Goldwater rule is that if it silences me,because I'm afraid of what the,professional repercussions might be it,does function as a gag order since I was,committed to speaking out and to,continuing to write and publish on the,issue of Donald Trump's dangerousness I,felt this was an unacceptable,infringement on my right as a citizen,and as a professional to add to the,dialogue in the public square to come to,some greater understanding of the,extraordinary situation we found,ourselves in so I contacted the,president of the American Psychiatric,Association and told her that unless,they rescinded this rule that I would,resign resign my membership and my,distinguished life fellowship etc after,41 years of participation the American,Psychiatric Association said that,psychiatry should not offer an opinion,as to somebody's diagnosis or mental,illness if they hadn't personally,examined the person and also received,his permission to make their conclusions,public now there is however another,legal Tarasov,this is a decision that was handed down,by a court in California but it really,has standing throughout the country that,gives psychiatrists a positive duty to,speak out if they have reason to believe,that a person is dangerous to other,their people and to warn the person or,people that he appears to them to be,dangerous to whether or not he gives,them permission to to express those,opinions in other words in that,situation okay I just does not have the,right the moral or legal right to remain,silent and I'm saying that's the,situation we're in with Donald Trump I,said the tariffs off decision Trump's,the Goldwater rule but I think that it's,important to recognize he is an,exception he is not a normal politician,we are in a pre fascist state right now,and I would just urge my fellow,rank-and-file members to let personal,conscience in obeying one's personal,conscience overrule any any deference to,two wrongheaded policies that are put,forth by a professional organization as,your organization is called duty to warn,I I think that our our duty to protect,our public just as it would be with an,individual patient where safety always,supersedes other concerns I I think I,feel an ethical obligation to speak out,that is is far greater than adherence to,to the Goldwater role I'm utterly,convinced as a as a psychiatrist that,the Donald Trump is psychologically,unfit to be President,it is clear that he is reckless,impulsive self-absorbed we could go on,and on and that these characteristics,pose a real danger to society and to the,world,really I haven't devoted my life to,studying the cau

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Mental Health Professional's Duty to Warn - Dr. Dean Aslinia

hi I'm gonna go ahead and take a few,minutes and explain a very crucial,aspect of mental health and that is the,topic of confidentiality as well as the,duty to warn when it comes to a mental,health professional now use the term,mental health professional to denote,that it's not just therapists that need,to understand this difference it's not,just psychologists it's not just,psychiatrists it's not just licensed,professional counselors or Marriage and,Family Therapist and/or social workers,so I use the term mental health,professionals to encompass that entire,umbrella because the two cases that I'm,gonna review here in this video are,gonna be relevant to all mental health,professionals so I'll be looking down,and I'll be reading through some of the,Supreme Court's opinions that were,written on both of these cases that are,precedent-setting cases one is a Supreme,Court of California decision as well as,one that is a Supreme Court of Texas,decision both have had serious,implications when it comes to the legal,mandates facing mental health,professionals in the United States and,then in the state of Texas and the,importance for needing to know the,difference between the two are huge,because the two supreme court cases,essentially contradict one another and,so it's important to know which one you,have to follow and knowing and following,the mandates and the statute set set,forth by your specific state is going to,determine several things one if there,going to be any criminal charges held,against you any civil penalties and or,if,the Board of Examiners that regulates,your specific licensure whether it's the,psychology board counseling board,marriage a family board Social Work,Board or any other mental health related,Board of Examiners you could potentially,face losing your licensure if you don't,know or follow these statutes correctly,so first off I'll talk about the Tarasov,versus the Regents of the University of,California ruling that was decided on,July 1st 1976 so here just to give you,an overview of the important topics of,this case what ended up happening so you,know the main characters if you will mr.,Poddar who was a client in this case was,a UC Berkeley graduate student who,developed a attraction for the victim in,this case Tatiana,Tarasov and so they met at an event and,so there were some exchanges of words,between the two they allegedly kissed,and he was infatuated with Tatiana,Tarasov and so developed this very much,deep sense of love or attraction to her,he was also obtaining outpatient therapy,from a psychologist at the UC Berkeley,Hospital at the time and so he disclosed,at some point when he felt rejected by,Tatiana Tatiana had said I don't want,anything to do with you and he felt very,rejected with that she had taken in that,summer of 69 she went to Brazil,and so he had disclosed in his therapy,sessions to his psychologist that when,she comes back from Brazil he's going to,kill her that was alarming to the,psychologist who went up the chain of,command to his supervisor and ultimately,reported the threat to the campus police,hmm,detained mr. Poddar for a period of less,than 72 hours and that's important to,know because that puts the burden on the,law enforcement if they kept somebody,for less than 24 hours or rather less,than 72 hours or they kept him more than,that time period so regardless he was,kept for less than 72 hours what's known,is it was about 24 hours that he was,held and once they determined that he,was in fact rational and was not,hallucinating or having delusions they,went ahead and released him,so we fast forward so now this is around,August 20th 1969 that he informed his,psychologist that once she comes back,from Brazil he's going to kill her so we,fast forward a couple of months to,October October 27th 1969 he enters,Tatiana's apartment shoots her and stabs,her 17 times killing her,and so after her death the parents of,Tatiana go and sue the psychologist as,well as the police department citing,that they did not protect their daughter,the way they should have so several,charges were brought up in that case,four of them specifically one was that,there was a failure to detain a,dangerous patient that was one of the,charges the second charge was there was,a failure to warn on a,dangerous patient then the third charge,was that there was an abandonment of a,dangerous patient and last but not least,that there was a breach of primary duty,to patient and the public so these were,the charges that were filed because the,mental health professionals had released,port are less than 72 hours the Supreme,Court of California ruled that the law,enforcement had no liability here and,that the liability went back to the,mental health professionals long story,short the ruling as it came down from,the Supreme Court of California was that,in fact the mental health professionals,had a duty to warn the victim and or,other individuals identified as a,potential victim in this case as the,parents were alleging

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"Duty to warn" on MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell Show

behind the walls of the Kremlin who,they're preparing Vladimir Putin for a,first meeting with America's president,everything is under preparation,compiling a dossier on Donald Trump's,mental strengths and weaknesses joining,us now John Gartner the author of the,online petition mental health,professionals declare Trump is mentally,ill and must be removed also joining us,Lance DotA's former professor of,psychiatry at Harvard Medical School,John Gartner there we have the Russians,doing a version of the work that you are,doing apparently compiling a,psychological dossier to present to,Vladimir Putin on Donald Trump,governments do this all the time within,their intelligence community they employ,psychology professionals to do exactly,that within the intelligence community,you're doing a version of this publicly,and you're doing it as I said in,violation of this long-standing rule,since 1964 presidential campaign that,you're not supposed to diagnose people,publicly who who you have not seen,privately and you're never supposed to,share any of the diagnosis that you've,made privately why have you come to this,point because of exactly what you,mentioned this duty to warn if we could,construct a psychiatric Frankenstein,monster we could not create a leader,more dangerously mentally ill than,Donald Trump,he's a paranoid psychopathic narcissist,who's divorced from reality and lashes,out impulsively it has imagined enemies,and this is someone as you mentioned,who's handling the nuclear codes,you know this Goldwater law rule is,frankly absurd from three different,vantage points first the debacle that,took place during Goldwater zero was in,the freudian time before we had the,Diagnostic and Statistical Manual the,great advance of the Diagnostic and,Statistical Manual as it gave us clear,behavioral diagnostic criteria for every,disorder so we're these psychiatrists,are saying he had potty training issues,and latent homosexuality issues there,were unproved concepts,we now know if we can observe someone's,behavior and their words we know that we,can diagnose them and actually this,whole idea that the psychiatric,interview is the gold standard for,making an assessment it's just frankly,not true empirical research shows the,psychiatric interview is one of the,least reliable ways of forming a,diagnosis that it's a behavior and,informants and obviously we have,thousands of hours of behavior and,informants are much more accurate and,finally as far as ethics go I would,argue to my colleagues of those who,don't speak out are being unethical that,if we have some knowledge and,understanding about the unique danger,that Donald Trump presents through our,psychiatric training and we don't say,something about it,history is not going to judge us kindly,dr. DotA's I'd like to show you some,video of Donald Trump because everything,we're talking about is is based on what,you've been able to see him do publicly,on video and there was a moment of that,for me was the pardon expression from an,amateur but the sickest moment of Donald,Trump's lying history it was in a South,Carolina debate when he said he lost,hundreds of friends on 9/11 let's just,look at this how did he keep mistake,when the world,I learned hundreds of friends okay now,here's the truth it was not hundreds the,next day 12 hours later on Meet the,Press he reduced the hundreds to well he,lost many many friends the truth is he,lost zero dog trunk did not attend a,single 9/11 funeral he stands there in,front of the debate audience says he,lost hundreds of friends of 9/11 the,truth is he lost zero,he lost nothing he suffered nothing on,9/11 what do you call that what did we,just see well it's lying but there are,two pieces to it I think one is that he,lives because of his sociopathic,tendencies that dr. Gardner was talking,about that he lives in the way anybody,who scams people does that he's trying,to sell an idea or a product by telling,you something that's untrue is that,lying there's also the kind of lying he,has that is in a way more serious that,he has a loose grip on reality we can,say that because he lies about things,which aren't even that important to him,like the electoral college majority and,he's been told that it's not true but he,keeps doing it I think what that,indicates is that he can't stand an,aspect of reality that he doesn't want,so he rejected his grasp of reality and,his attention to reality is is loose an,extremely dangerous trait in a president,actually makes him unqualified and John,Gartner I mean it's imagined it's,certainly there are people who we could,find who exhibit more overt mental,illness that was it but but they could,never actually get themselves up on to a,debate stage and put sentences together,it seems to me that your point is within,the realm of people who could possibly,win a major party nomination and then go,on to winds apparently this you're,saying is as sick mentally as you can,get right this is literally the worst,case scenario because y

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What Happens if a Client Confesses to Murder? | Counselor Limits of Confidentiality

welcome to my scientifically informed,insider look at mental health topics if,you find this video to be interesting or,helpful please like it and subscribe to,my channel,well this is dr. grande today's question,is if a client confesses a murder to a,counselor does the counselor have to,report it I've heard a number of,variants of this question as well so not,just murder but other serious crimes,like assault kidnapping bank robbery,drug trafficking all kinds of things so,this is kind of a tricky question and,what I'll be talking about here in this,video is not advice somebody's in this,situation they need to seek supervision,because I can't account for every,variable in a situation like this you,really have to talk to a supervisor and,work this out but I can speak in general,terms and we'll take a look at duty to,warn and duty to protect and the limits,of confidentiality and some situations,that may be relevant to this type of,scenario so the duty to warn and do you,protect are different for each,jurisdiction so another factor here,would be looking into what the laws are,specifically in the area where you,practice now I'll be looking at this,from the point of view of a mental,health clinician but also some of these,factors are related to the clients point,of view as well and some really cover,both now this may seem like a rare,situation but we do know that 40% of,murders remain unsolved and of course,high percentages of other serious crimes,are unsolved as well many of these,offenders do continue to commit crimes,so they could be in prison for something,else not the crime that they're trying,to hide like a counseling session but,still it's possible there have been,counselors who have been the situation,before where they're working with,clients and the clients are hiding a,serious crime there's a serious crime in,their past and they want to talk about,it but they're a little wary of what the,counselors going to do so to answer this,question kind of the default answer is,no but there are many exceptions so if a,client confesses they've committed a,murder to a counselor by default the,counselor has to keep that confidential,but,I mentioned there are many exceptions we,call these the limits of confidentiality,so we look at the limits we see if,somebody's going to harm themselves,other people some may be able to breach,confidentiality in that situation if a,child an elderly individual or a person,with a disability are being harmed that,could be a limit to confidentiality,again depends on where somebody's,practicing if a judge issues an order,for the mental health records that would,be an exception if the client can sense,that of course would be an exception and,in certain jurisdictions there are other,activities that may be reportable and,this is very dependent on where somebody,is some of these jurisdictions even have,events in the past that may be,reportable something that's not ongoing,that something the client did a long,time ago even if the statute of,limitations with a criminal component,has already expired so it just stresses,the point here which is to make sure you,understand the local laws so as,indicated there are a number of factors,to consider here and I'm just going to,go through a few that I think are fairly,important so as we look at a situation,like this we'd want to know the nature,of the crime was an accident did it,happened a long time ago or recently was,it a deliberate crime that led to an,unexpected outcome so like a bar fight,that resulted in somebody dying because,they hit their head during that fight so,murder wasn't the intent but a death,still occurred was a weapon involved,what type of weapon gun knife poison did,somebody used their bare hands were,there conspirators and are these,conspirators going to know that the,mental health clinician knows that the,client told them right so will the,conspirators find out that the client,hiding the crime told the mental health,clinician about the crime sometimes I,call this the Jerry Oziel dilemma right,Jerry özil was a therapist specifically,a psychologist in California who treated,Erik Menendez and Erik Menendez from the,Menendez brothers murders he told Jerry,O'Neill that he had committed this,murder Lee killed both his parents and,then his conspirator his brother Lyle,found out,and that conspirator threatened Gerry,Oziel so the role of a conspirator can't,be underestimated,another factor would be what about a,manhunt is this a crime that was,committed and the police are actively,looking for the client if that's the,case I mean the police are only gonna,apprehend that client I mean they don't,try to hurt innocent people of course,but when they're chasing somebody who's,dangerous other clients in the area are,other people in the area could be in,danger in other words if you're standing,next to somebody who's wanted for murder,that's not always a safe place to be,another factor here would be is it,gang-related whether other gang members,that migh

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Tarasoff Murder Case | Duty to Warn vs. Duty to Protect

welcome to my scientifically informed,insider look at mental health topics if,you find this video to be interesting or,helpful please like it and subscribe to,my channel well this is dr. grande,today's question is what is the duty to,warn so when I say duty to warn I'm,talking about the obligation in most,jurisdictions that mental health,professionals have if they're treating a,client and that client makes a threat to,another person or they have some reason,to believe that client is going to harm,another person a lot of times when we,think about the duty to warn we think,about a particular legal case Tarasov,versus the Regents of the University of,California and this is really the,dangerous intersection between mental,health and the wall I've talked about,this before in other videos we're,combining the responsibilities of a,mental health clinician to treat a,client and help that client with this,idea of protecting other people,protecting the public from the client so,it gets into an area that a lot of,counselors feel uncomfortable with and,there are actually a lot of reasons to,feel uncomfortable with it because the,law the duty to warn law or the duty to,protect law is different in each state,so I'm gonna start with talking about,Tarasov and then kind of move into the,implications of the Tarasov case so it's,interesting because when we talk about,the Tarasov case we're really actually,talking about two cases there was a,Tarasov ruling in 1974 that provided,this duty to warn right so a therapist,had a duty to warn intended victims but,Tarasov one as I'll call it the 1974,case was actually vacated by Tarasov two,in 1976 and this changed the duty to,warn over to a duty to protect so in,essence this increased the options for,the therapist a little bit so now it was,the duty to protect and not necessarily,a duty to warn but therapists could,still warn depending on the,circumstances so the key finding in this,case,Tarasov - was that the protective,privilege of therapy ends where public,peril begins so this element of course,is shared with Tarasov one this was the,finding in 1974 as well this idea that,there is a limit to confidentiality when,the public is in danger so now I'm going,to get into the facts of this case it's,a fascinating case and I think that a,lot of times as mental health counselors,we hear a shortened actually incorrect,version of the Tarasov case and it,really kind of leaves us a little bit,confused as to what happened and why we,have this law today the short version,that's incorrect that we hear a lot of,times is there was a student who went to,a Counseling Center at university and he,indicated he was going to harm somebody,he followed through with that and murder,a young woman and during his time in,therapy the counselor didn't do anything,therapists didn't do anything to try to,stop him in any way and you'll see from,the facts of this case that yes there,was a murder and there was a person who,expressed an interest in committing a,murder but in terms of the actions of,the therapist there were a lot of,actions taken in order to stop this,individual so this is really interesting,because again it diverges from what we,hear so often about the Tarasov case so,we see if this case begins with a man,named person Jeet,hadar and Poddar was a 35 year old,student at the USC California at,Berkeley and he started there in 1967 he,was an exchange student from India in,the fall of 1968 he started a folk,dancing class and he met Tatiana Tarasov,and she's also known as Tanya Tarasov,she was 19 years old,they met weekly and on New Year's Eve,1968 they kissed,now Poddar thought that this meant that,they had kind of serious relationship,that this indicated the start of a,serious relationship but Tarasov was not,interested and she was actually involved,with other men and she indicated this,2-part are Poddar took this rejection,pretty sure,he became severely depressed and he,would meet her still occasionally and,during these meetings he recorded her,and played the recordings back trying to,figure out why she didn't love him or,what her feelings were in general so,Tarasov went to Brazil on vacation,during the spring of 1969 and during,this time Poddar improved he actually,went to a hospital that had an agreement,with the University and he was treated,by a dr. Gould at that time he was,diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia,and dr. Gould referred him to dr.,Lawrence Moore who is a 34 year old,therapist now dr. Moore's wife had,attempted suicide and attempted to,murder their child so he had some,significant stressors in his history as,he started these sessions with Poddar so,they met several times weekly and more,noted that Poddar had a pathological,attraction to a young woman who had,rejected him and that Poddar fantasized,about harming her now hadar never told,dr. Moore that the woman was Tarasov but,dr. Moore figured it out from the,information had available on August 18,1969 dr. Moore determined from padarthas,rem

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